What I really want to post is a question that has been in mind, well, since I started looking at all the grumbling over what canon is and the retcons and the wank.
Is there a correlation between a fan's experiences with authoritarian parents/teachers/role models and how accepting they are of new canon? You know, "Because Ann Said So" vs. "The Complication is all just fan fiction!"
Yeah, this is what I do with a BA in psychology.
ETA, Sept. 12, 2007 9:17am:
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ff_press has picked up on this, (And they gave it a nice and erudite title, too! I'm very sorry for anyone that was tempted to click on the title, expecting a detailed analysis, and only getting a somewhat open-ended question.) and I actually have responses. I just wanted to air a question that's been in my head since, well, Advent Children's release. No, fair responders, I didn't expect ff_press either to pick this up or for any responses. I'll get to them, really.ETA, Sept. 12, 2007 5:34pm: On reflection, I know I have to clarify myself. This is what I meant: "Is there any relationship, postitive or negative, between a fan's direct experiences with authoritarian people and how receptive they are to new items of canon as specified by the creative team or members appointed by the creative team?" I did not mean anyone considered an authority. I meant, specifically, those defined as highly demanding and poorly responsive. ("Do this now because I said so.")
The reason I asked the question is due to personal experience: I came from an authoritarian household and Roman Catholic tradition. Infallibility and "because I said so" are deeply ingrained into me. So, authorities are right, and I'm wrong. How much of this has colored my acceptance of the Compilation? Or is it something else?
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chasethestars
chasethestars
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Personally, I've never had any problem or issues with police, parents, or teachers. I always was, and continue to be, a good boy =)
And my view on the compilation? Over-glorified fanfiction.
I think it's a quality issue. FF7 was practically magical, and then Square busted out with stuff that was not so much unoriginal as it was downright stupid and/or brown-nosing to specific members of their fanbase.
As an example, in FF7, we're shown that Lucrecia wasn't 100% fond of Vincent. In a flashback, she has to wrestle her arms away from him, and she runs away. CRYING. What was Vinny doing, forcing himself on her?! When you meet her in the cave, she tells Vincent to back off. So, what do we get in DoC? "Oh, I want to love him, but i let his father die, so it would be awkward. And there was something else too... oh, right, i, uh, *cough* love hojo? yeah..." They basically reversed her stance on Vincent 100% and gave her the lamest reason for not returning his affections. Add to that all the B.S about G-substance (huh?) and Chaos being a WEAPON (HUH?!)... I mean, this guy was an OPTIONAL character. So now they're telling us that if we don't get Vincent in the game, that we'd lose in DoC automatically as Vinny would be in his coffin that entire time? He's now automatically more important to the Planet's survival that Cloud ever was? Oh, and "Hojo saving his brain in a computer"? Yeah, Frank Verderosa wrote that fanfic like 8 years ago. Nice try, Squeenix.
In BC and Last Order, we're shown that Cloud got totally owned by Sephiroth, who ran away fro no reason. This completely kills Cloud's greatest moment. In the original game, Cloud didn't "just barely survive" his encounter with Sephiroth; he WON. But now, it's been retconed to where Sephiroth was well within his rights an ability to just decapitate Cloud. So the question goes from "How the hell did Cloud get strong enough to fling Sephiroth 30 feet in the air while shsikabobed?!" (Answer: Cuz he's awesome like that!) to "...Why didn't Sephiroth just finish Cloud off, and why'd he run away?" And add to that "Now in FF7, why's he so mad at Cloud? After all, now, Cloud never defeated Sephiroth all those years ago, so the vendetta has no purpose"... guh.
So, you can see, compared to how great FF7 was, how... disappointing the compilation has turned out to be thus far. At least to me.
Hope this helps your research... and, sorry for going off on a tl;dr tangent.
DC essentially recycles plotlines that Squeenix has used before. The Hojo/Vincent/Lucrecia backstory is okay (if a little weird) until you get to the point where she chooses Hojo. Her excuse for doing so is waaaay too flimsy. The whole Virtual Hojo thing is poorly conceived as well, as is the Omega motivation. Given the reasons for Omega's ascent, you'd think it would've arisen either during or after the Meteor/Geostigma crisis. Both play like weak workarounds more than plot devices.
The laziness in DC's story is bolstered by the laziness in its non-FMV graphics and especially its gameplay. I like shooters, and as far as gameplay goes, this was the worst one I ever played.
Also agreed about BC and LO. The fact that Sephiroth goes into the mako on his own free will doesn't make Cloud seem as strong as he really is. There's also the matter, at least in the latter, of Tifa being awake to see that it was Cloud who carried her off to the side in the reactor. Tifa wasn't supposed to know that Cloud was there at all—it's a major point of the original FFVII! I could go on, but anyway, I can't wait to see how CC will screw up this pivotal story even further. </sarcasm>
These Compilation projects may be canon, but that doesn't mean I can and will accept them as such, especially if they go against the spirit (and the facts) present in the original FFVII.
And no, I don't recall having any authotarian adult figures growing up, though I did have several who taught me the meaning of the word "quality".
But then, wassap, he gets his strength back because his friends need him. And he still has payback to dish out. In short, Cloud's story is about overcoming extreme adversity in grand fashion.
Sephiroth running away takes all of that and tosses it in the crapper.
I'm semi-agreed on Tifa. But maybe she was so out of it at the time that she forgot. Mind you, she has a penchant for getting amnesia at around the time where she ends up unconscious for a week. I think Madhouse (the guys who made LO) just put that part in as an easter egg, because those were Tifa's exact words in the original game, overlapping the flashback at that point. However, maybe they also thought that Tifa was actually saying that at that point (mind you, in the game, her eyes are still open, and she looks right at Cloud). But in any case, it sorta does mess up the story without having to come up with all sorts of lame excuses. *shrug*
Oh, absolutely. It was awe-inspiring to see little Cloud, who never made it into SOLDIER, pick himself up with the Masamune running through his chest and kill Sephiroth (well, his physical being, anyway)! LO sucked most all the awe and inspire out of that pivotal scene.
However, maybe they also thought that Tifa was actually saying that at that point (mind you, in the game, her eyes are still open, and she looks right at Cloud).
As for the Tifa thing, yeah, that's probably the only way to explain it—as a misunderstanding on the part of whoever wrote LO's script. For such an important detail to be left unchecked kind of smacks of a lack of oversight, though.
Um, looks like I went off to tl;dr tangent of my own. Sorry about that. But my point is, lots of WORD to you, and I have to love that reference to Frank Verderosa.
**reposted for mistakes, jeez I'm tired ^^;
Okay, but what's your MP?
Anyway, I think the OP is trying to find a correlation between people who just take S-E's actions as godsends because they're used to having to obey vs more defiant and free-thinking types of people who are capable of biting the hand that feeds.
However, i believe the OP made a critical error: Not many nerds have problems with authority (unless it's the tin-foil hat wearing kind of nerd) =P
My favourite relationships can only really happen in fixit-AUs, dreams, or in the Lifestream after Cloud dies, so I've never had a problem finding ways around canon I disagree with even in the original game. Same with Compilation; though some of it's vaguely interesting (and I wholly admit I am excitedly anticipating Crisis Core because I'm a huge Zack fan, even if the way it looks like they'll end it will hurt like hell), the shiny pictures are pretty much the best part.
Important new characters, particularly in the pre-game setting, make me very leery, so I tend to ignore them unless I can use them in some way. Compilation retellings of canon events (see: Nibelheim) I never take as canon; we already know what happened, so why bother changing a few of the details in telling us again? Granted, it might've been interesting to know, say, how the Turks were involved at Nibelheim, but that's BC. It's harder to accept canon from Compilation stuff that's not really accessible precisely because it's not really accessible; only a very few people have had access to BC outside of scripts (which aren't really a good substitute for actually playing the game). As for the written stuff, though there're translations of online everywhere I ignore it completely, mostly because it's pretty much just Squeenix-endorsed fanfiction and I've seen much better ("The Maiden Who Travels the Planet" in particular makes the Zack/Aeris fan in me twitchy).
Basically, I see the Compilation as kinda like cafeteria Christianity. You can pick and choose what canon you accept. That's part of the beauty of it. You can write alternate universes/realities/timelines, you can write OGC-only fic, you can tell readers you're only using the original game, BC, and DoC, and all of it's perfectly fine. If something uses elements from a canon you don't like, you don't have to read it.
My one great fear is that if/when they stop dancing around the subject and announce a remake, they'll try to shove all this new Compilation canon in it to fit when really, it'll be difficult (if not impossible, in some cases) to do so seamlessly. All a remake needs is updated graphics, a bit of a tighter translation, and
Morikawa Toshiyuki as Sephirothdual-language voice actingso I don't have to listen to wimpy!English!Aeris....egads, I ramble.
That's a different one on me. XD
That, and my experience with other authoritarian figures has been kind of jaded. More than once I've gotten off lightly for things I should've been more severely reprimanded for. After a while, authoritarian figures start losing so much of their unshakeable authority and become merely human, to be afforded perhaps a little more respect than some people but still taken with a bit of "yeah, okay, if it's in my best interests to do what you want that's fine, but other than that, meh." The cop thing I mentioned, for example -- when my father recently finished a project for a local chief of police, he received as a bonus something that pretty much amounts to a "get out of ticket free" card if he ever gets pulled over in that town. That lack of impartiality doesn't exactly do much to inspire respect, you know?
And yeah, I think it does reflect a little on my own acceptance of Compilation canon. If it suits me, I'll take it; if not, screw it -- not like Squeenix and Nomura are gonna punish me for ignoring the vast majority of DoC, or whatever, since what do they care about some nobody American chick anyway, unless she's lining their pockets?
Game is absolute Canon. AC is more Canonish. BC and DC fall in about the same level. I ignore LO's existence most days (because of all the DUMB THINGS mentioned above) minus the fact that the Turks were there. Where CC will fall has to do with what stupidness they pull - though after changing second class' uniform color because it /didn't look good on Zack/ I don't have much faith - but the pictures are nice!
I take Game as the world setter. Since I write so many AUs, I twist things here and there in the world, but that is my base point. :)
In that regard, I’m glad to see you’ve gotten some responses, and I’d like to pitch in my own. I, too, had an authoritarian guardian. If anything, though, it’s made me less likely to honor an authority figure’s wishes just because. Though I’d say it’s a minor effect, I do concede it colors my judgment.
I can sympathize with some of the aforementioned gripes, especially those to do with Cloud’s diminishing in Last Order, but I think my approach’s been a little different. I accept each release in the Compilation as canon, but not at all in a cumulative sense; it’s really much more compartmentalized. I’m inclined to write only for the original game, so I end up paying no heed to the others. If I were to write for LO, of course, I would consider LO to be the absolute arbiter of its own canon and neither consider the original game nor BC. Does this make sense? I’m not so sure. But it does make my life a whole lot easier!